Bibby Gignilliat had a varied career path, including more than two decades running her own business, before she decided to do something that would feed her soul. Heeding the advice of author Julia Cameron, well known for her book, The Artist’s Way, Bibby returned to doing something she loved as a child: creating art. She sought out the teachers and colleagues who supported this new journey, and slowly gained the confidence she needed to emerge as a mixed media collage artist. Using skills she gained through teaching corporate cooking classes and facilitating events, Bibby launched an online art course. To date this California resident has reached more than 700 students worldwide. Join our conversation with Portland Art Gallery artist, Bibby Gignilliat, today on Radio Maine.
 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Hello. I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle, and you are listening to you or watching radio Maine today. I am speaking virtually with the artist Bibby. Nice to see you today. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Nice to see you. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And you are joining us from the wonderful state of California.

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Sausalito, California. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Excellent, Bibby. How did you get connected with the Portland art gallery all the way here on the other coast? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Well, one of my fellow artists in the building down the hall, Andrew Faulkner, shows with the Portland Art Gallery and he just couldn't say enough good things about you all. I've been following him and watching all the things that the Portland Art Gallery did for him and the beautiful gallery that it is. And so I connected. He made the introduction and I connected with Kevin. And here I am. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

You haven't always been a mixed media artist. You actually had a whole other life professionally before you came into this field, is that correct? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes. I'm a Jill of all trades, having done everything from being a computer programmer to a bicycle tour leader, to going to culinary school. And then I ran a cooking business for 20 years where we did hands on cooking parties and group corporate team building, for anywhere from 20 to 400 people. So I'm used to herding people and getting them to cook and I've applied that now to my art career, where I teach. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Where do you teach art? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

I teach art out of my studio here, usually once or twice a month. And then I also have an online class where I have 700 people from around the world in the class. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Wow. So I've been wondering this for a while, and now I get the chance to ask you this question. How does one teach an online class in art? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Oh, that's a great question. Well, I had no interest actually in teaching an online class, but then COVID hit. And I think a lot of artists suffered during the first couple months of COVID because a lot of people were not really focusing on spending money. And so I thought, wow, I've gotta come up with an alternative. And I was getting these emails and Instagram requests from around the world saying, please, please teach an online class. And so I developed one during COVID and launched it. And I think because so many people were at home and looking for something to feed their soul during COVID that many people signed up. Iit's kept going because it's a self-paced, self-study class, so people can do it from home at any time of the day or night and they can join at any point. Then just take the class at their convenience. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So do you record something ahead of time and they kind of follow along with you as they're watching the recording?

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes. It's got 20 modules and they watch the recording and then they go apply it to their panel and they come back and watch the next step. It's that kind of thing. Or some people, I think, like to watch the whole thing and then go back and start at the beginning. So I have people that will come take my in person class, and then they'll go home and they'll take the online class because they can watch it over and over and over. Then some people that will do the reverse. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And this is presumably in mixed media? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes. 

 

Dr. Lisa Bilisle:

So how did you start gathering all of these different people from around the world? Were you also using Instagram? Were you using other forms of social media? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes, and I have an email list. One thing that differentiates me from a lot of artists is I love the business side because I've been in the business world. I've had a real entrepreneurial side, so I have a pretty large mailing list and then also a large following on Instagram and Facebook. And so, I just would mention it there. And I do a lot of reels on Instagram where I show a technique and I'll always put my hashtag mixed media with Bibi, which is the name of the course. So people will see it and then they'll check it out and then they'll sign up. So, that's the beauty of passive income because you might be sleeping and someone might sign up for your class while you're sleeping or on vacation.

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah, I think that's great. That way you can kind of keep on doing what you love doing, but you don't necessarily have to do it in real time. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Exactly. I didn't really want to do a live class because you know, people are from around the world and are from different times and that kind of thing. So this way people can take whenever they want. 

 

Dr. Lisa Bilisle:

Well, I'm glad you clarified because in my mind I was thinking you are doing these classes on zoom and I could see, here's Bibby in the center and then there's 700 little heads all on the zoom at the same time. That felt like it maybe wouldn't work as well. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. If people have questions, they can just write it through my Facebook group, which is part of the class or they can do it through the platform, which is pod.com. They can write the questions there and I can just answer them. 

 

Dr. Lisa Bilisle:

So it seems like this, the creative side of things and doing the business side of things, each of those have continued to evolve simultaneously in all of your prior professional iterations. Is that right? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

That's correct. Yeah. It's like each one built on the next one, if that makes sense. So, in my former business, I did a lot of the PR and marketing. Also, I did a lot of the group facilitation. So both of those skills have come forward in this part of my life. 

 

Dr. Lisa Bilisle:

I enjoyed  learning that. One of the things that brought you back to art was remembering what you did when you were young and feeling like you wanted to return to that very elemental self. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes, Julia Cameron says in her book The Artist's Way, if you really want to know what you should do in life, look at what you loved as a child. At age 10, I would go every Saturday to this place and I took painting lessons and I loved those classes, I was actually quite good. Then I had a critical teacher and became a perfectionist. So I stopped painting and I really hadn't painted for many years until 2014. And so I was feeling kind of tired of running a business and managing. At one point I was managing 60 people and it was just too much. I  wanted to feed my soul and I kept thinking about painting. So I finally took a class with an artist here in the ICB building, named Nick Wilton. I was the worst one in the class, literally. If I showed you some pictures, you'd agree with me. But, I have discipline and determination. So I got a space in the ICB building and I felt like an imposter at first. I didn't even want to have anyone see me even go to the bathroom or get any water or anything.  I just wanted to stay in my studio and hide, but I kept working on it and I found all the right teachers. Pretty early on, I realized I was a collage artist. And that's why I think that first class was hard because it wasn't in collage. I realized I was a collage artist. So I found all the right teachers and gave myself basically like a master's in painting. So,I've come full circle to what Julia Cameron says, which is do what you love as a child. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I love that you're willing to share that. That sense of being an imposter and that sense of needing to hide, because, I know that many of us have felt that way. And even as we're feeling that, we don't necessarily feel that great about it.

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Right. You kind of are almost a little bit ashamed of it, but at the same time, I was determined to work through it. So I just kept showing up and eventually it got easier and easier for me to come out of the closet. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, as you're talking, I'm just envisioning this caterpillar butterfly analogy where you're kind of hanging upside down in your pod and all the things are kind of coming together as the next phase and then coming out of the closet as a Monarch butterfly. But having to go through that messy phase. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. And the vulnerability of the first open studios where you've got all your artwork up and you kind of don't know what the reaction is. You hope no one says anything mean to you. And then, I remember for the first couple of open studios, I only sold to friends. And so then you're wondering like, is my art really that good? Or these friends just buy it because they feel sorry for me. Anyway, I remember my first open studios where I sold my first painting to someone. I don’t know, it was $90, it was on sale, but it was thrilling. And then you started getting the validation. And now, at open studios, it's really rare that I sell to a friend. It's mostly people I don't know. And I went from a 100 square foot studio to now I'm in a 1500 square foot studio. So it's just exactly that, I went from being a caterpillar to a butterfly.

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I also love the Brene Brown quote that you shared about this idea of everybody being creative, but not everybody choosing to use it, which doesn't mean the creativity goes away. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. I was so inspired by that and I've got it printed up in my studio and I read it right before the start of my classes because there's so many people who come to class and they think they might not be creative because maybe a sister was the artist, so they weren't. But I do believe that everybody is creative. Maybe the person is creative with coding as a computer coder. Maybe they're creative with gardening or singing, or whatever it is, but everybody has some creativity in them. I find that people find their happy place when they are pursuing that creativity. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yes. I'm reminded of another quote that I won't be able to get right. But it's something about, bringing forth that which is within you less it destroy you. This idea that if you don't allow your creativity to emerge, it still will come out in some form, but maybe not in a form that actually is kind of conducive to a happy life. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes, yes. That's really important! So especially, I think people realize during COVID, the importance of feeding their soul.  

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So tell me about this piece that is behind you. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Okay. This is a piece that I made with a local carpenter named Mark Felder.  It's an awesome wall sculpture and it's called Comfort Zone. And the reason we called it that is, I had never done anything like this before with building a structure and Mark had never made a piece of art. So I got together with him and I said, let's create this piece. And so he built the structure with me, providing some ideas here and there, and then I did the painting on it. Then he came back in at the end and added a few more pieces of pipe and all sorts of things on here. I had gotten a lot of these materials at a local salvage shop. They're old, like antique pipes and that kind of thing. So we built it and we called it Comfort Zone because we were both getting out of our comfort zones to be able to build something like this and create something like this. I included a lot of my work that has several layers of papers and then paint. And this piece, if you can see it up close, there's lots of little windows into the underlay where there's interesting old papers. Then this is an actual story I wrote at age seven or eight about my cow that likes to eat Kellogg's corn flakes. I had quite the imagination as a little kid. But anyway, what was so magical about this piece, it was our first piece that we did together. I submitted it to the De Young Museum in San Francisco, which is considered one of the most prestigious museums for a show. They were called the De Young open. It was a show they decided to have during COVID to help support artists. They received 11,800 submissions. Out of 11,800, this piece was selected. They selected 800. This piece was selected to be in the show. So it was in the museum but unfortunately most of the show was shut down for COVID. So very few people got to see it, but they hung it in a really amazing gallery style. I was thrilled that the piece got in. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Wow. That's very impressive. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Thank you. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And speaking of validating, I mean, you've gone from now feeling like the only people who are going to buy your pieces are your friends and family. You have this really wonderful honor. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes. It was just thrilling. And again, like you said, it was extremely validating and we have since made a couple of other pieces like it. I just think I love using all sorts of found materials. It it's thrilling to me, and repurposing them 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it's a little bit like cooking in a way. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

It totally is. It totally is. Cooking and art are very similar, in that you can follow a recipe or a formula with painting, but you also can go outside the lines. I'm someone who loves to draw outside the lines. I'm an Aquarius, I'm a rebel, a Maverick, etcetera. And so if you give me some rules, I want to break them. So, I'm the same way with cooking. I was less of a baker where you have to be really exact and more of a free form cook. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So when you were adapting the cooking into group classes and into group work for larger audiences, were you able to bring that free form nature of things into the work you did? Or did you have to pretty much just follow recipes? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Are you meaning like for my classes and that kind of thing? Yeah, so with my cooking business, we had this wonderful product called the kitchen challenge where people were given a huge market basket of ingredients and they could throw together a meal. And then at the end we would announce the winner, like the groups would do it together, and then they'd present a presentation plate to the lead chef and the lead chef would taste it and evaluate it and then determine the winner. So that was very exciting for corporate groups that tended to be more competitive. And in art, I want to take some of the competition away because people already have so many voices going on in their heads. But what I do bring that's similar, is I have this huge group of supplies that they can pick from. All sorts of fun tools and tips and that kind of thing. So at the beginning of the class I'll show all kinds of things that they can do for their pieces. But then, it's also within confines, there's some structure, but then also the ability to go off road. If that makes sense. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I think that's a great combination because initially I was envisioning this. Here's a recipe, I'm gonna show you how to whisk the eggs and add the salt, and we're going to put it over a low flame. More kind of a standardized approach. But I think what you're describing really would be much more participatory and in a corporate setting I'm guessing that's kind of what they're looking for. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes, yes. And there's nothing that brings people together better than group cooking. I think it applies also to painting because what will happen at my classes is people will show up and they'll be a little awkward and nervous. I have a very intuitive approach to painting. So I explain that to them and then they start painting. And then usually by the end of the day, the group, even though they're working on their own work, but because they're in this creative exercise together, there's a bonding that happens. And a lot of times by the end of the class, people are exchanging numbers and that kind of thing, wanting to get together again, or take the class again. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So describe this intuitive approach. What does that look like? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Well, I think that a lot of people approach art from their analyzer, which is in the frontal lobe of the brain.  I try to get people to approach it from their intuitive place, which is in the center of the head. So, for example, in the morning of the class, I have them not think and just lay down papers. Then in the afternoon after they've done that free form approach in the morning, they bring in the analyzer a little bit because it's a dance between the intuition and the analyzer in painting. You want to have the analyzer there to say, is this design working? But oftentimes, if you're just coming from an intuitive place, it'll work. What happens is people get sort of paralyzed by being in the analyzer the whole time.

And so I try to help people to kind of learn to go in between the two. After the morning when they're just doing it intuitively they like the feeling so much that they learn to be in that place more when they're painting. What happens oftentimes when they get into the analyzer, they get attached and attachment blocks the flow. So basically when we're painting, artists are painting, they're channeling and any kind of attachment is like a rock in the river. If there's a rock in the river, the flow of the water can't go through. So if you remove the rocks, then the flow can go through. So that's exactly what I'm trying to help them do. Just be in this freeform place where there's no rocks in the river. Then they can in the afternoon, bring it in, bring the analyzer in just for a bit to see if the design is working. And we go over some design principles and that kind of thing so that they can check as they're looking at their pieces. Does that make sense? 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It does. And I was thinking about this idea of attachment where a lot of what we're doing now in scrolling through Instagram or social media, or, any kind of digital feed, is that we are kind of moving towards something that is mildly addictive. So we are kind of attached and it's feeding and attachment and feeding and attachment. So I'm wondering if our brains nowadays are actually even more in that kind of analytical, attached, framework than maybe they once were when we didn't have access to all of these things. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

I think you're probably absolutely right. I think the goal, or optimal goal for all of us, would be to spend more time in a meditative state where we are in more of the intuition and connecting. I believe the intuition connects us to our soul and to our authenticity. I don't want to be the analyzer because we do need it. I just think that it's a more peaceful and authentic place in the intuitive space. I went to the Academy of Intuition Medicine in Sausalito, as I was approaching my art practice. I was thinking, if art doesn't work out, I need something. What would I do? So I approached them both at the same time and it was really interesting. As I was doing some deep spiritual healing and clearing myself out, becoming more and more who I really am and letting go of family programming and societal programming, the better my art got. And so a lot of times people will say, gosh, you got so good quickly. And it's because I did the spiritual work. Releasing the attachments and the programming that we all get from school, from families, from society and that kind of thing. Does that make sense? 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, it makes a lot of sense. You're describing a very Buddhist idea, this kind of letting go of attachments. And it's interesting because the work that I do on the medical side as a physician, we are very much working with these kinds of social constructs. Even in describing illness, we are creating constructs around ideas. It's interesting for you to be going through the process of deconstructing and detaching and really getting back to an essence that maybe is more like the 10 year old who's out painting and kind of really in the world. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

I've had to let go. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a recovering perfectionist. I grew up in a family where there's lots of ways I was supposed to be and should be, and I'm kind of a free spirit and out of the box. I didn’t fit into this family that I love deeply and I was sort of a misfit in the family to be honest. And so, this growth that I've been on, this spiritual path that I've been on, has been about reclaiming who I really am and art is part of it. So I think while my family loved art, I don't think they would've thought it was a great idea, right out of college to become an artist. So I was a computer programmer because I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I made a lot of money and all that, but it wasn't feeding my soul. So I was getting closer and closer to it with each job and finally, nailed it.  

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I can absolutely relate to what you're describing. I think a lot of people can relate to what you're describing because I think about my own family, for example. My parents both very much valued education and it's because their parents very much valued education. It wasn't that many generations back that we were dealing with people who valued education because they didn't have access to education. So the way to become successful was to do prescribed things and to do them in the right way. It wasn't just being successful. It was a means of survival. So we all do get programmed to do things that are a means of survival, which is not bad, but it does kind of send you down a path in your life. If you're several generations removed from the need for actual survival, then you're thinking, okay, I'm good. I'm surviving. So can I pull back a little bit more? Can I return to that creative space? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

I mean, what I did with my art practice is while I was getting my Master's in Intuition Medicine, VOCA, it was a Vocational Master's. And then, while I was doing the art, I was still running my company, for about four years. So I was doing this all at the same time. But it kind of allowed me to feel secure, to be putting one foot into this new life while I still had a foot in my old life. I was still earning money and everything. So I finally was in a position where I could sell my company and I felt like I could jump in full force to my art practice and I would be okay. Interestingly enough, as an artist, a lot of people have this mentality that you're gonna starve as an artist. But I've had more prosperity as an artist than I did running my company actually. And I'm not saying that to say, “Hey, look at me!”  I'm just saying that to dispel that belief that artists have to starve. So much art, so many people don't take the leap to become an artist because they think they're not gonna make any money because of what we're told. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. I mean, you are describing something that I was just bringing up in another conversation. This idea that if we are creative, then we are moving away from security. That's such a damaging thing to believe because it means we always have to be in a space that lacks creativity in order to survive. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Exactly. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. But I don't believe in that. So with that said, I work hard on the business side of art. I think a lot of people want to be an artist, but then they don't want to do any of the business side. And my number one bit of advice for artists that are starting out is treat it like a business. Even if you don't like it, you have to work on the business side. I mean, you guys have! The Portland Art Gallery is an amazing art gallery. I can tell you work a lot on the business side. You do a lot of events, you sell a lot of art. People know about it because you do a lot of social media. You take it very seriously. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, and I think that is also kind of a weird and damaging social construct. This idea that business is bad. 


 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Exactly. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Why is business by necessity bad? It's really the idea that what you're trying to do is bring something of value to somebody who values it. In doing so you create a livelihood and a means of existence for people. So it's, it's funny that we've got so many weird kinds of societal constructs that we're all trying to navigate on a day to day basis. And we may not even realize it. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. We’ve got to  just break them down.
 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Spoken like a true Aquarius. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

And by the way, I have two daughters who are Aquarius and one is at the beginning and one is at the end of being an Aquarius. And so I, as a Capricorn, have great love for my Aquarius children. But I also know that this is actually a thing for those of you who might not believe that a doctor can believe in astrology, well you've met one! 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah, exactly. And I've got a lot of Capricorn in me as well. So that fuels the business side to get things done.

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

There you go. You've got that. You've got that goat climbing its way to the top of the mountain. Right? 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Mm-hmm!

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

So tell me about the piece that's behind me, On My Coast. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Well, first of all, one of my most popular sizes of artwork is a 24 by 24. That's the size of the piece behind you. I love to start my work with a layer of collage. So that piece was started with a layer of collage. It's just solid collage, all sorts of memorabilia. I've saved everything from growing up.I have old report cards in there, library cards, things from menus from restaurants. I can't even tell you how much, I have boxes and boxes of stuff. My mom saved all that for me. And then wherever I go, I collect stuff. Old airline tickets. And I just put it down as the first layer. I love texture. So then I come in with a trial, which is a Mason tool. I apply the acrylic paint on top and it leaves these little windows into what's underneath. 

So it kind of is a little bit mysterious, but also just like people it's layered. Then on top I create the design. I usually start with a graphite mark of some sort and then come in with the college that's actually on the top. I sort of saved the more sexy collage materials for the top and brought in a lot of paint, you know, color to bring it all together. So I like the white space because it's a nice value difference to the busyness of the collage and it gives the eye a place to rest. Then, the collage elements are very whimsical and almost childlike. It's sort of a nod to coming back to my childhood. A lot of times I'll do these pieces in a series with found collage items. I did a whole series of these where I had gone and taken collage elements off of telephone poles in Berkeley. They were for music posters, mostly music posters for this theater in Berkeley. The particular series behind you is from a whole series of cyanotypes. When I was making the cyanotypes, you put them in the sun and the solution for the cyanotype sometimes goes on the background paper and falls out onto the background paper. I take the background paper and I use it as an element in this collage and in other ones that you guys have already sold. So they all have that cyanotype in them. The background material from that. I try to repurpose almost everything. Another whole series I'm working on right now, I'm using cardboard boxes from Amazon. Because it's really bothering me how many boxes we have, so everything's going to go into a collage. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

It's very interesting to me that here you are talking about kind of peeling back the layers and detaching yourself and you're literally giving people pieces of your past life. Like here you go, I'm done with it. It's in my art. Now you go put it on your wall. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yeah. It's just a little memento into the past. Some of my colleges I don't cover up as much, you can really see what's underneath. I've had people come in and have done a few commissions where people said, would you put our own materials as the background in the piece for us. I did this commission a couple years ago, a his and hers commission. She was into horseback riding and yoga and that kind of thing. I had a lot of that in the background picture of her horse, a picture of her doing yoga. Then in his, he was a Warriors fan, which is a basketball team. He was a bicycle rider. I had a horseshoe in hers. I threw a live horseshoe in hers. In his, I wanted to put a bicycle wheel in it, but he said that's too much. So I didn't have anything sticking out of his, but I had a lot of his memorabilia. 
 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Yeah. It’s interesting because they're there, there's always a balance between what you detach from and give away and what you keep. So even making that decision for somebody else as you're doing a commission for them, it must be interesting to navigate that and how it’s incorporated. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Yes. In that particular case, I allowed them to come to two different showings of it and they gave me some feedback on what they wanted and what they didn't like, what they wanted to hide, and what they wanted to bring forward. But in general, I have gotten to the point where in my work at first when I would do these things, I would not want to cover anything up. Because it's like, oh, that's my old report card and that's this, or that's that, or like this piece, this wonderful story about my cow eating Kellogg's corn flakes. But I've gotten to be very loose about all that. And you know, I just let it all go now. And if there's something that I really want to keep, or if one of my students really wants to keep letters from their parents or something like that, I have them make a copy of them and then incorporate them in. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

Well, I enjoyed my conversation with you today, Bibby. I actually learned a lot about mixed media, which is something I didn't know that much about before, but also I love the intuitive and analytical sides that you're describing. It's something that I'm going to take back with me about and how it relates to my own life. So thank you for that. 

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I am encouraged. Thank you, I encourage people who would like to learn more about Bibby Gignilliat and her work to go to the Portland Art Gallery website. Or, look her up and take a class with her online. It sounds like there's all kinds of wonderful wisdom that she has to share. I hope maybe you'll make it out here and come to one of our Artist Openings in the not too distant future. Maybe you can bring Andrew Faulkner along with you and I'll get a chance to meet him in person.

 

Bibby Gignilliat:

Would love that. Thank you. 

 

Dr. Lisa Belisle:

I'm Dr. Lisa Belisle, you have been listening to, or watching Radio Maine today with Artist, Bibby Gignilliat. Thank you for joining us.